How do train enthusiasts and leftists feel about train conductors? I have a feeling they're kinda-cops, their job is to protect profits of the train company.
perhaps, but in some cases the metro is actually operated by the government- for example, the Bay Area Rapid Transit system is actually run by a district body and not a for-profit corporation.
From an anarchist point of view, yeah, even those people are some kind of enforcer, I guess.
I was confused for a second because I thought “train conductor” meant “train driver”.
I fully believe their existence is useless outside of enforcing reserved seating, otherwise they’re costing way more than they are bringing in fines, which means that train companies are ready to spend money to prevent poor people not to take the train since I expect most non-reserved seating trains not to be profitable and need to be subsidiarized anyway.
Well if it's free then conductors aren't required, and if it isn't then they prevent freeriders... But maybe you have a different system and different people.
Again, I believe conductors are useful in reserved seating trains. But for subways, it’s a waste of money. I’ve lived in Paris and New York, both have a subsidized paid subway system, both have free riders, but only Paris has train conductors. Their mere presence is a net negative given that they don’t even prevent free riders in the first place.
Here around conductors mainly do ticket verification, cheat and freeride prevention. They serve no useful function for the passangers. If they were not there nobody would buy a ticket, no matter what sophisticated system you established: we're smarter. 😉
(In Hungarian subway there are no conductors, but there are "ticket guards" who can verify if you have a valid ticket and fine you if you don't, plus kick you out. They are usually indistinguishable from the homeless living in the streets, except that many homeless have had better schooling and higher IQ. Despite the enormous problems with these beings they are said to have lowered the freeriding substantially since they are released in large swarms.)
It sounds like Paris’ conductors, moving in swarms, ticketing riders, either in trains or in subway tunnels.
And I don’t believe lowering freeriding is a social good. It doesn’t make free riders into paying riders, the fine is just inconvenient but amortizes over time.
It’s like fighting digital piracy, each fine doesn’t convert a pirate to a paying customer either.
Except it made freeriders into paying riders. It seems over there people freeride because they cannot pay and if they have to pay then they can't ride. Here people freeride because if they can cheat any system they will, no matter what effects it has.
I'm skeptical about official announcements regarding conductors that would justify their continued existence, but maybe there's something to cultural differences between North America and Europe. Simple turnstiles are enough of an inconvenience for most New-Yorkers to pay for rides. There still are free riders, but they aren't the majority where I live, which isn't representative of all of New York of course.
Well these beings are a PR disaster for the companies since they are so low on the food chain that often one needs the police to clean them up (I did on various occasions), and they are also have hurt tourism badly (in those golden days when we used to have tourism). I have engaged in protecting tourists from them several times, I have obtained experience and practice and it's always been a shameful conversation (screaming/yelling/atrocities). And I tell everyone: never give them money. Ask for a penalty ticket and pay in the office. (But do not try to ask them where the office is, they will not help.)
So yeah, their employment options are pretty numbered but the collateral damage they cause is substantial.
They have published ticket sales numbers. Obviously one can decide whether there's correlation or causation, but still, it was so visible that they have kept the droids.
It is not Europe, it is Eastern Europe, a brother of The Balkans, the historically lowest of the low. We have 50+ years of training.
Sean Tilley
•From an anarchist point of view, yeah, even those people are some kind of enforcer, I guess.
Hypolite Petovan
•I fully believe their existence is useless outside of enforcing reserved seating, otherwise they’re costing way more than they are bringing in fines, which means that train companies are ready to spend money to prevent poor people not to take the train since I expect most non-reserved seating trains not to be profitable and need to be subsidiarized anyway.
grin
Hypolite Petovan
•grin
Hypolite Petovan
•grin
Here around conductors mainly do ticket verification, cheat and freeride prevention. They serve no useful function for the passangers. If they were not there nobody would buy a ticket, no matter what sophisticated system you established: we're smarter. 😉
(In Hungarian subway there are no conductors, but there are "ticket guards" who can verify if you have a valid ticket and fine you if you don't, plus kick you out. They are usually indistinguishable from the homeless living in the streets, except that many homeless have had better schooling and higher IQ. Despite the enormous problems with these beings they are said to have lowered the freeriding substantially since they are released in large swarms.)
Hypolite Petovan
•And I don’t believe lowering freeriding is a social good. It doesn’t make free riders into paying riders, the fine is just inconvenient but amortizes over time.
It’s like fighting digital piracy, each fine doesn’t convert a pirate to a paying customer either.
grin
It seems over there people freeride because they cannot pay and if they have to pay then they can't ride.
Here people freeride because if they can cheat any system they will, no matter what effects it has.
Hypolite Petovan
•Z̈oé ⛵
•grin
So yeah, their employment options are pretty numbered but the collateral damage they cause is substantial.
#hungary
grin
It is not Europe, it is Eastern Europe, a brother of The Balkans, the historically lowest of the low. We have 50+ years of training.
Z̈oé ⛵ likes this.