The recent excitement surrounding Thread's arrival on the Fediverse is concerning. To understand why this is not a good idea, consider their economic interest in harvesting data, their poor moderation, and their manipulations. Nothing good can come from their federation. Don't roll out the red carpet for them.
β§
π Dr. Blight β€οΈ
•acrypthashπ¨π»βπ»
•9x0rg
•Erik Uden π₯₯π΄π
•very powerful picture - we must not repeat the same mistakes as have been made before! Corporations could not care less about interoperability. All we do is lend them our built community and power, for which they will drop support the moment it suits their interests. Google Hangouts never needed to support XMPP, it was just a convenient tool in order for a decentralized and anticorporate alternative to messaging to be destroyed - when it no longer suited their needs XMPP support was dropped.
Don't let this happen to the Fediverse - corporate, ad-mania, and data harvesting corporations do not share our values and beliefs.
Sweet Home Alaberta π¨π¦ πΊπ¦ π³οΈβπ π³οΈββ§οΈ
•p
•@davidrevoy
Norbert Kowalczyk
•Dion Dokter
•Shadow Heart
•Mad Dog Ace Run
•Roman
•StaringAtClouds
•If I wanted a threads account I'd open one
All I want to know about threads on the fedi is which servers they are so I can block the fuckers
StaringAtClouds
•If you want to do this
Block the threads.net server
Your app may not have a block domain option, if so log in with a web browser, find a threads.net account, go to it's profile, click the 3 dots & block the domain
See https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/111587088958531028
Eugen Rochko
2023-12-15 23:44:12
David Revoy
•StaringAtClouds
•I found my phone app doesn't do have a block domain option, so I used a browser
Thought I'd tell people just in case
Grum999 :verified:
•It's a good things to see "big company" looking at open standard instead of closed one like BlueSky or X does
But looking stats on fediverse (https://fediverse.observer/stats) there's around ~13,000,000 users on ~22000servers: having the ~140,000,000 users from threads in fediverse will probably generate a huge disorder...
Also, probably most of threads users are ex-twitter users without habits of fediverse
Most of servers admin will probably block thread
Fediverse Observer checks all servers in the fediverse and gives you an easy way to find a home using a map or list.
fediverse.observerjug
•Definitely not an easy discussion. Meta as a company deserves all the criticism, and I do not trust them at all.
But β¦ we always advocate for free and open services and protocols. Now that we get them, we say "no, not like that!" This is what we wanted, this is how we get users to interact with the fediverse, how we show them how easy it is to use privacy respecting services, this is how we get them to switch.
Instead we build walls, exclude them, make it difficult and unappealing.
Mossad-UltrΓ‘ Oliver π
•J.H.Noyes
•Stu
•Mastodon really ought to have provided much better information to people regarding losing follows when moderation like this takes place. I have absolutely no idea who I'm about to no longer be in contact with as Threads causes this schism. The onus should never have been on me, the individual. It's a total UX own goal.
edit - I know you have your hands full and I apologize for tagging you out of the blue, but this is such a big deal @Gargron
flench04
•Ertain
•Andreas M. Heitmann :batman:
•Just login and see for yourself how bad the content is. This is Instagram only with more words.
This is yet another social network for content and not for discussion.
Mark Zuckerberg ist unable to re invent Social Media!
But it is able to kill #Twitter and #bluesky ...
This account is inactive!
•David
•myrmidon
•David Revoy
•myrmidon
•And people "there" are normal people, not fascists, rapists, murderers, etc.
So what does this ban mean exactly?
Letβs take to another level: You live in France, one of france telco HR policies are so bad that some of its employes are killing themselves citing workβ¦ again. Do you think you should ban calls/texts with anyone using their SIMs or landlines?
Quinn9282 π₯οΈπβοΈ
•Mark Zuckerberg (@zuck) on Threads
ThreadsMark Stoneman
•Mark Hurst
•Creative Good: Instagramβs unmentionable problem
creativegood.comGomiboy75 π΅πΈ
•Alyssa Voronin
•LonM
•On the other hand, it's horrifying to see that the technology is being recognised as valuable by big tech.
Thomas Frans πΊπ¦
•ploum
•: looks like I will need to write a post to go with that new picture like Iβ―did with
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse)
ploum.netDavid Revoy
•@ploum Please do.
Many people seem to see this Threads federation test as a positive thing, or something to celebrate and I still have no idea why they do.
Words missing here.
mrFred489
•Chris
•Max Legroom β
•Harvesting data: if someoneβs toots are public Meta (& others) can anyway right? & if someone is not on Threads Meta canβt get more than what is posted
Poor moderation: join an instance that full blocks Threads then. Thatβs a selling point of the Fediverse
Manipulations: not on their service so what can they manipulate?
Nothing good from their federation: except being able to interact with the millions on Threads
Donβt get me wrong, I hate Meta but fearmongering isnβt going to help
David Revoy
•Interacting with millions on Threads: OK, this is a good thing. 1/2
Mark Zuckerberg (@zuck) on Threads
ThreadsDavid Revoy
•Max Legroom β
•Poor moderation is a thing on Mastodon as well. I've seen all kinds of porn bots in random hashtags they don't belong in. The beauty is the option to de-federate is there & I hope that can also be a way to combat Meta "paying to winβ
David Revoy
•Now I can also see another positive argument for this federation by the way thanks to your message: showing to their huge audience they can move to a free/libre alternative without loosing their contacts or content. That's indeed a thing to consider.
degoedel
•David Revoy
•Max Legroom β
•Morgane deSiv
•David Revoy
•Jeroen
•Then again, I suspect them for only opening certain options to EU citizens.
Other people might have to start again on a different server.
The #dsa starts to work on 1st of januari 2024 for big companies and will gradually expand to smaller ones. Threats isn't part of it yet, meaning that they'll have 4 months to comply once the EU put them on their list.
Jcrabapple π
•@maxmm77 I hate to break it to you but there are porn bots on Mastodon. Scroll through the federated timeline. Admins will moderate those Threads accounts just like we do when they're Mastodon accounts. There's also hate speech, racism, misinformation, etc here and we moderate that too.
If we need to create new tools to make it easier we will. We have some of the smartest people on the Internet on the fediverse. This place adapts.
Jim Jones
•I understand the concern, but there is nothing in the protocol that allows them to harvest data according to the main Mastodon developer. Even displaying images from an Thread user won't give the IP back to Meta as images are copied and cached from instance servers.
It is a post work reading. It alleviated some of my concerns at least.
Samuel Leuenberger
•I'm therefore inviting anyone thinking Threads is dangerous to at least read Mastodon's creator thoughs about it (and dispel some weird beliefs on the way) :
https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/07/what-to-know-about-threads/
What to know about Threads
Mastodon BlogDavid Revoy
•Samuel Leuenberger
•Haelwenn /ΡΠ»Π²ΡΠ½/ :triskell:
•The way the Fediverse works on a technical level doesn't really matters, except for the fact that posts are sent very widely by default and how you'd end up with a all-or-nothing communication with Meta.
The way Meta makes money via harvesting data and people manipulation on the other hand is important, the fact that Meta is proprietary is also important because it means they can do extensions without others being easily able to follow or solve interoperability issues.
Gargron here is playing a dangerous game and is trying to lessen the harm Meta can do.
Samuel Leuenberger
•David Revoy
•Samuel Leuenberger
•On the opposite, if I'm subscribing to a Thread user, Meta cannot do anything about my activity : because I'm not using their App they CANNOT advertise stuff to me and they CANNOT get my personnal data (only my server has my email, IP address, etc.)
David Revoy
•David Revoy
•@Linux_Is_Best I largely disagree. Best defense is always to start communication about something. Not engaging and ignoring something is never effective.
Not thank you for teaching me how I should behave by the way.
David Revoy
•David Revoy
•Jacen of the People
•thesuperpapagai
•Gokul Das
•David Revoy
•πͺ
•Meta can easily harvest ActivityPub federated data without implementing ActivityPub federation in Threads.
The biggest concern is overwhelming moderators in no small part due to the lack of knowledge, planning, and experience one should expect of amateur administrators and moderators to have in dealing with moderation concerns when thereβs a sudden 3x (or higher) order of magnitude increase in federated accounts.
That and the inevitability of a huge increase in ads and sponsored and commercially driven content.
Roy-Ahoi π
•Lea
•David Revoy
•blueberry
•Arrival of the Meta Myzel β A Fungiverse Tale
Fungiverse Talescarrotcypher
•Wolfram RΓΆsler
•blueberry
•David Revoy
•blueberry
•John Watson
•Eduardo57 :vf:
•David Revoy
•C.IM
Mastodon hosted on c.imhelpstopcapitalsim
•Sign the Petition
Change.orgAaron In Minnesota
•David Revoy
•π½οΈ Process:
π¦ Sources: https://www.peppercarrot.com/en/viewer/misc__2023-12-14_Don-t-roll-out-the-red-carpet-for-them_by-David-Revoy.html
#Krita #MastoArt
Don t roll out the red carpet for them by David Revoy - Viewer - Pepper&Carrot
Pepper&Carrotnunux
•Un artiste merveilleux capable, sous un trait humouristique, de mΓͺlΓ© open source, informatique, social et bienveillance, le tout avec beautΓ©, et ouverture.
Bravo, et merci.
Ray Of Sunlight
•Ryuno-Ki
•Related https://mamot.fr/@ploum/111579955055590160
ploum
2023-12-14 17:29:57
David Revoy
•@RyunoKi Oh yes, I'm eager to read the a potential next one: https://mamot.fr/@ploum/111579927458776482
ploum
2023-12-14 17:22:56
rival
•LautreG
•Des captures d'Γ©cran automatiques et rΓ©guliΓ¨res tout en travaillant ? Depuis une fenΓͺtre avec la prΓ©visualisation du travail en cours pour Γ©viter la prΓ©sence du pointeur?
David Revoy
•Recorder Docker
docs.krita.orgSusan Larson βοΈπ³οΈβππ³οΈββ§οΈπ
•Taz ΓΎe Pika
•M.S. Bellows, Jr.
•RussianDeepStateSock
•this is all so weird. The primary reason most of us came here, at least between 2018-2022ish, was to specifically GET AWAY FROM facebook, twitter, and other social media systems. Suddenly, instance admins are bragging about connecting us to that, and acting like they have amnesia about the entire affair.
No thanks. I will actively work to make sure I block all accounts and networks connected to this.
Athesis
•casey is remote
•Tertle950
•https://mastodon.social/@Tertle950/111581350854829744
Tertle950
2023-12-14 23:24:56
Tillman Reuter
•Bryan
•I don't think that threads needs to federate in order to harvest mastodon data. They can use the public mastodon APIs to do it.
And there are plenty of federated mastodon servers with spotty moderation.
I don't like meta, but defederation will hurt users, not the company
David Revoy
•Bryan
•That'd give them everything they'd get if they federated. The only time they'd get more is if you directly interact with Threads content.
David Revoy
•@periodically_pedantic I think you are right: making a secret activity pub server could work to try to scrap the fediverse at the condition of being federated with the targets.
But maybe a server + a bot like that would be quickly visible on the log of small instances and be quickly flagged as a scrapper bot (just because it takes ressources for nothing).
I'll probably search Fediblock discussions to see if such a bot/server already was seen and blocked for this specific reason.
Bryan
•The other server doesn't need to be a mastodon server, so does it even need a bot/user?
How do servers filter the content they subscribe to?
David Revoy
•I'm not sure if they can list all the replies under a post; or they have to "Open Original" to see that. With an API key, I can list all the comments dynamically on my blog : https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1009/dont-roll-out-the-red-carpet-for-them/show#comments ( cached for 1h to be friendly with the API of my instance).
Don't roll out the red carpet for them.
David RevoyGabriel Pettier
•i agree with the point about moderation, but i find the point about data harvesting misleading, all the data on the fediverse is free for anyone to harvest, federating with meta won't change that.
For moderation, each servers have their policy, we know how to handle that, some server can be cautious about it, others just won't give it a chance β understandably β, and others will be pretty open, we'll see how it goes.
brawnybunkbedbuddy
•tinydoctor
•oneofthepetes
•Can it be blocked?
David Revoy
•Bhante Subharo
•Your artwork is great! How about one from Aesop's fables, featuring the lion taking his "lion's share"?
https://read.gov/aesop/141.html
Those who don't see any problem with Threads joining the Fediverse apparently seem to think that functioning-by-goodwill internet Federations grow on trees, and they aren't any sort of considerable loss if sidelined and subverted by the lions who know everything there is to know about taking their "lion's share".
Library of Congress Aesop Fables
read.govDavid Revoy
•Aesop Mini comic by David Revoy - Viewer - Pepper&Carrot
Pepper&CarrotAleggra
•Alligator
•Thilo Maier
•I donβt think the interoperability in itself is cause for concern.
People signing up to #threads as their first Mastodon server seems more of a threat.
But I will observe with an open minded curiosity.
LiveByReason
•The Fediverse is essentially public. . . would they not be able to harvest data regardless of whether they did or did not federate?
Also, regarding, "poor moderation and manipulations", that's literally a risk with *every instance*.
You either do want distributed, decentralized social networking, it seems to me, or you do not. It may end up being the case that most instances end up blocking threads, if it ends up too terrible.
But for the most part, people can choose who they follow and don't follow, and can block people they find objectionable.
All the risks cited, are risks for every possible instance in a federated system. What is so special about Threads?
Cardboard!
•David Revoy
•Matthew M :risc_os_verified:
•For me - I've been dreading this since it was announced it was on the tables when Threads first became a thing about a year ago!
Even ignoring Meta's terrible history with user data and how they have people engage in a negative way on their platforms: I'm worried about them turning this platform into commercial hellscape with Ads left, right and center! I fear Threads integration will end what I loved about Mastodon, and indeed the Fediverse, so much!
Igor Rock
•No, most other people don't care about this, and cannot be bothered to do so (their choice).
ActivityPub is a protocol like SMTP, which just means that everybody can implement a service with it, which then can interact with other services using the same protocol.
I myself am looking forward to finally be able to chat with those other people again WITHOUT HAVING TO JOIN THAT COMMERCIAL PLATFORM MYSELF.
David Revoy
•@IgorRock Please no cap. Cap I read them as yelling. π
Good you talk about SMTP: are you informed about how Gmail, right now βbecause of getting majority of emailsβ is doing the law on the world of email? (eg. https://thedaily.case.edu/upcoming-gmail-changes-may-impact-email-delivery/ ).
Don't you think Meta becoming a major player in the Fedi world could push some 'security check', complexify the standard until no little project could follow, this type of things? Don't you see the dependency in case they takes it all as Gmail did?
The Daily
Brianna Smith (The Daily)Igor Rock
•As such, on platforms which don't support bold or italic fonts, I myself don't equal upper case text with yelling, as I do on platforms which have those.
Maybe this is something which should be improved in Mastodon (it would be easy to use some wiki-like syntax to do so, to be honest, clients just would have to support it, no protocol change needed).
David Revoy
•I think I read somewhere some instances and versions supports Markdown basic feature. Let's test (I always was curious π ):
*test*
**test**
_test_
~~test~~
~test~
> quote
## Title
[edit: Ok, edit after I saw the result: it doesn't work on my side π Good to know ]
Max Mustermann
•Can you see this?
test test test
test~test~Title
Pleroma has rich text by default.
David Revoy
•Max Mustermann
•Hmmm. I think Mastodon is more autistic about this than most people...
Testing
David Revoy
•Max Mustermann
•Boom, done. Now even the Jargon should be translated correctly. Alongside the Markdown unless I was wrong about the way Mastodon's interpreter works.
A thing that used to not work with Mastodon was sharing activities that contained article-tags.
David Revoy
•Igor Rock
•At least those companies using it now most probably will, because they cannot risk to miss mails from customers... I think Google is shooting themselves in the foot with this, as they are doing with their "no adblockers anymore" changes to Chrome.
David Revoy
•David Revoy
•Ryuno-Ki
•Oh, the king arrived, huh?
How do you treat kings again in France? π€
π€‘
David Revoy
•JF :debian: :verbike:
•How can I see the thread federation (before I block it ?)
ruurd@mastodon.nl
•@feditips
yeah. there goes the neighbourhood.