"I don't see color, just people" can either lead to "I treat everyone the same" which is good but ignores historical consequences of #racism, or "everybody must be having the same experience of life as me" which is utterly wrong and privileged.
In either case, it's a red flag.
In either case, it's a red flag.
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**joe
AFrenchWithCigarette
Hypolite Petovan
AFrenchWithCigarette
My fear if we see color for reconciliatory efforts, then we could end up zigzagging about the equality line: e.g.,support blacks until they have more priviliege than whites, then remove support or support whites until they have more privilege, and so on. The reason why we have to zigzag is that there's a long delay between first doing something to equalize, and seeing the effects of that action.
But perhaps a zigzag is better and fairer than a slow rise.
Hypolite Petovan
One of the reasons is that the US society will look very different when reparations would be able to be voted by Congress and not require as much efforts against discriminations anymore. I think it would be the ending point of society overhauling instead of the starting point of the US redeeming itself for slavery then mass incarceration/unpunished killings.
Christian Wiwie
Close to being offended by your post feeling called a racist I googled more. I found several articles of people of color that describe what the problems about that phrase are. The one that opened my eyes was this one. Some key points:
and
... show more
Close to being offended by your post feeling called a racist I googled more. I found several articles of people of color that describe what the problems about that phrase are. The one that opened my eyes was this one. Some key points:
and
After reading those articles I get it. It's not at all a good thing to say.
So three take home messages for me:
1. Probably I need to be more self-critical about the whole racism topic.
2. Thanks to you, I feel a bit less racist than before.
3. Explanatory communication is key to getting insufficiently sensitized people [like me] to reflect on the aspects of racist thinking and to actually relate them to themselves. While your provocative, summarily post kickstarted the thought process for me, the "click" came only when reading the explanatory posts from people of color.
All in all, thanks for making me a little bit wiser!
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Hypolite Petovan
Furthermore, since I'm not a victim of racism, I tend to feel illegitimate to expand on such a sensitive topic for fear of being wrong in the explanation, even if the base message was right. I wish I could direct people to the POC who taught this to me directly or most likely indirectly through their writing/acting, but I don't keep a bibliography of my opinions.
I'm glad it went better than expected, and I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to you for having done the work by yourself even though you weren't in the best dispositions to do so. I would like to add that I will gladly accept questions on any of my statuses, even the most provocative ones. I don't always have solid explanations at the ready, but questions help me form them and reaffirm my beliefs when I'm right, and change them when I'm wron... show more
Furthermore, since I'm not a victim of racism, I tend to feel illegitimate to expand on such a sensitive topic for fear of being wrong in the explanation, even if the base message was right. I wish I could direct people to the POC who taught this to me directly or most likely indirectly through their writing/acting, but I don't keep a bibliography of my opinions.
I'm glad it went better than expected, and I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to you for having done the work by yourself even though you weren't in the best dispositions to do so. I would like to add that I will gladly accept questions on any of my statuses, even the most provocative ones. I don't always have solid explanations at the ready, but questions help me form them and reaffirm my beliefs when I'm right, and change them when I'm wrong.
I'm glad I sparked something and that you ran away with it. Thank you for the feedback as well, it is invaluable.
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**joe
But it is not about "feeling less racist". We are all capable of either contributing to racism or fighting it, within ourselves or in society.
The question shouldn't be "Am I a racist or not?", or "Do I see color or not?"
Rather, it is better to be against racism, wherever you find it, inside or out.
I would never say "I am not a racist", or "I am colorblind, I don't see race".
But I do, proudly say, "I am an anti-racist. I am against racism."
Christian Wiwie
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**joe
Alexander
Yes, I know it is seen as red flag by many.
Hypolite Petovan
So even if surface discriminations disappeared overnight, black people would still overwhelmingly live in run-down neighborhoods, with lead-poisoned water, occupying the least favorable jobs, earning less money than their white counterparts for the same position, rot in prison for petty crimes, have little to no place in academia, work their bodies to traumatic extent in sports, be routinely misdiagnosed or mistreated because generations of doctors only had white bodies to consider.
And here's the kicker: it won't even happen, ever. So we need to do more than that to achieve some sort of justice.... show more
So even if surface discriminations disappeared overnight, black people would still overwhelmingly live in run-down neighborhoods, with lead-poisoned water, occupying the least favorable jobs, earning less money than their white counterparts for the same position, rot in prison for petty crimes, have little to no place in academia, work their bodies to traumatic extent in sports, be routinely misdiagnosed or mistreated because generations of doctors only had white bodies to consider.
And here's the kicker: it won't even happen, ever. So we need to do more than that to achieve some sort of justice. Once because of the generational harm that we white people intentionally did to people of color over centuries. Twice because all of us just being nice won't be enough, and thrice because it won't happen anyway.
In the meantime, it just is insulting to mention it. Don't take it from me, please take it from the people of color who wrote the two articles about it @Christian Wiwie linked to above:
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Alexander
However I also see what people (some of them) are trying to say with it and I share some of these thoughts. The idea which is poorly expressed by these words is about making equality the priority. As I said elsewhere on here: if we have situation with cops getting away with shooting black people we shouldn't make it so cops would be afraid to shoot minorities (africans or hispanics or homeless or whoever), we should make it so cops would be afraid to shoot people. Same with run-down neighborhoods - these are a problem not because they happen to black people but because they happen to people.
Malpractices (and good practices) should be put first, not colors, genders, etc... Doing away with malpractice will effectively extinguish discrimination. Doing it another way around... well, in my opinion it is problematic and not very efficient. Some of it even creates additional and serious problems.
I know this is not very popu... show more
However I also see what people (some of them) are trying to say with it and I share some of these thoughts. The idea which is poorly expressed by these words is about making equality the priority. As I said elsewhere on here: if we have situation with cops getting away with shooting black people we shouldn't make it so cops would be afraid to shoot minorities (africans or hispanics or homeless or whoever), we should make it so cops would be afraid to shoot people. Same with run-down neighborhoods - these are a problem not because they happen to black people but because they happen to people.
Malpractices (and good practices) should be put first, not colors, genders, etc... Doing away with malpractice will effectively extinguish discrimination. Doing it another way around... well, in my opinion it is problematic and not very efficient. Some of it even creates additional and serious problems.
I know this is not very popular opinion but this is how I view it (and not just racism but discrimination in general).
Hypolite Petovan
To keep on the ran-down neighborhood example, they aren't neglected because they are populated by humans, but specifically because they are populated by black people. So you can't just erase the source of the discrimination to fight and solve it. You have to acknowledge blackness as a specific reason for discrimination and you just can't do it without seeing colors, no matter how good your intentions are.
Among the other already mentioned problems, I believe that "I don't see color" is misled magical thinking and while it's perfectly fine for you to believe given the provided context, it is among the well-meaning but ultimately offensive things that you should probably never say to anyone else, like your dating preferences for example.
Alexander
I think I should stop here. I should just add I had different views, similar to yours (I suppose, maybe somewhat different ones) and eventually I arrived to this. Maybe it can be called misled magical thinking.
**joe
But of course you should always endeavor to judge people “not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”
You can tell me you don’t judge a book by it’s cover. But if you tell me “I don’t see covers, only books”, I won’t believe you.