... I help some non-profits with their media relations. I basically am forced to have a Twitter account as there are journalists who haven't pivoted yet.
So I am hooped, as are a chunk of these organizations. And naming and shaming won't change these core issues.
there are so many valid reasons people might be posting on Twitter, including maintaining a connection to their main audience, and possibly their livelihood.
I donβt have a good answer, but I think itβs good to at least know who is still posting equal amounts of content to Twitter in a non-transitory way. If the plan is to stay there with no end date in sight, then youβve βadorned the armbandβ IMO.
For now, qualified disagree. Twitter is slowly becoming unusable in terms of trying to post anything from the web client. Their Owner-CEO is talking about shutting down data center capacity too.
The Titanic didnβt go down in a sudden cataclysm. It took time for the disaster to fully unfold. Weβre watching problems continue to unfold on that system while the band continues to play. As long as they donβt start playing Horst-Wessel-Lied weβre okay for the moment.
Right now I am writing an end-to-end chat/voice/video client for the Fediverse.
That will allow you to advertise your E2E secure Fediverse messaging contact in your Mastodon profile. As with every other part of the Fediverse, anyone can set up a service, you can pick any service you choose. Unlike the current Fediverse, you own your account absolutely and you can change provider at any time without any cost whatsoever.
The next step will be to add RSS, ActivityPub and Mesh/Group feeds. So you will be able to read all your Fediverse content through one tool.
But the step after that is to add the ability to read Facebook feeds and Twitter feeds.
In my model there is the Fediverse of services that want to be open and the Feediverse of all feed like services including services that want to be walled gardens but are forced open through aggressive interop.
And the content curation system will select from both. So, if the curation services I choose spot that a lot of people like me are reacting to new content with 'give me more', that content is likely to... show more
Right now I am writing an end-to-end chat/voice/video client for the Fediverse.
That will allow you to advertise your E2E secure Fediverse messaging contact in your Mastodon profile. As with every other part of the Fediverse, anyone can set up a service, you can pick any service you choose. Unlike the current Fediverse, you own your account absolutely and you can change provider at any time without any cost whatsoever.
The next step will be to add RSS, ActivityPub and Mesh/Group feeds. So you will be able to read all your Fediverse content through one tool.
But the step after that is to add the ability to read Facebook feeds and Twitter feeds.
In my model there is the Fediverse of services that want to be open and the Feediverse of all feed like services including services that want to be walled gardens but are forced open through aggressive interop.
And the content curation system will select from both. So, if the curation services I choose spot that a lot of people like me are reacting to new content with 'give me more', that content is likely to appear in my feed. Conversely, if people are saying 'no more like this', that content is not likely to appear.
Not incidentally, this model means that not only do I not get MAGA hatter / QAnon drool in my feeds, it should also mean I don't get posts from public scolds of an Andrea Dworkin bent who lecture folk on not being leftie enough while collaborating with Republican censorship campaigns.
Does judging and attempting to publicly shame people into making choices you approve of truly fulfill you? Do people's tweets really have anything to do with you? Why not leave people to make their own choices? I think Elon will kill the bird site dead all by himself, all we need to do is let him.
I posted 3-10 times a day on Twitter over the years and I had 60k followers but I haven't posted in weeks at all but I haven't deleted or disabled my account.
I'm using Movetodon.com to try and find the folks I used to know over there so I don't want to fully kill the account.
I support having 1-on-1 conversations with people still using Twitter. Understanding why they are using it, their concerns about other platforms, etc.
"Call out" is too presumptive. If their livelihood is based on a Twitter publicity, it isn't helpful to castigate them for not rolling the dice with their future.
I support helping them transition. If the conversation reveals the are fine remaining associated with hate speech, that's a 1-by-1 determination.
@TrillionB yes. Also, crabbing people out doesn't work very often. They associate anything you're badgering them to do with the bad feeling of being badgered, and they usually dig in their heels and fight it.
A fun, interesting, diverse, helpful network with a lot of infrastructure capacity is probably the best way to get people to switch.
Good point. The "sales journey" for each person is going to be different. Generally, I see it highlighting the Mastodon benefits while not shying away from Twitter negatives.
Building on your point, I'm envisioning Mastodon evangelism around the Twitter negatives like an intervention. Lot's of "I" statements and avoiding "you" statements. "I feel Twitter is supporting objectionable causes," etc. As compared to, "You're bad to use Twitter."
One thing I've learned working in tech is that there is a whole universe of use cases for any tool that you can't imagine. Mastodon isn't ready to replace all of the ways people use Twitter yet, and it may never. I mean... Can you even tell Elon to "grow tf up" from here? No. You gotta go over there to do that.
So, this is probably the most contentious poll I've put on Mastodon to date.
Partly it's the structure. I sometimes do a format with a statement then options to agree or disagree. Other times, I do a question with options to answer yes or no. I do this interchangeably, picking whichever is clearer.
In this case, I think a lot of people took it to mean that I was making the statement, because it's what I believe. That elicited a lot of emotion!
I think participating in the Twitter ecosystem is net evil for the world. It's a system that runs on content, and generating content for that system is being complicit with a very bad company.
But I don't think everyone's ready to extract themselves 100% from that ecosystem. Some people might need to keep up contacts there. Posting there and here, minimizing posts there, providing exclusive content here, are all good strategies.
"Calling out", or "name and shame", is also a really strong response. I don't think I'm there yet, even with individuals and organisations that should be supporting this network.
I'm at a point, now, where I'm pretty disappointed to see friends here posting there. And I've told one or two as much, privately.
If I were someone still posting on Twitter, I would probably keep an eye on the numbers on this poll.
That's 42% of people who think it's time to call out those who still post on Twitter.
Poll was here, ofc.
I think the future is going to reward those who contribute to the network and culture here. I don't think it holds much promise for those who cling to Twitter no matter what.
It's probably a good time to think about one's extraction plan, whether as a brand or an individual.
ironically on a lot we agree - I don't post on twitter, there is nothing of interest nor do I want to contribute to the hellsite
But honestly your whole self-righteous screed at Twitter *users* does not reflect well on you or ActivityPub. The fact you don't see it and double down is astonishing.
You sound like some mad pastor giving lift to Twitter as some satanic entity, and like The Fall - you damn everyone regardless of their views as sinful.
re: "They are giving full access to DMs and private accounts to conservative journalists."
Twitter, including through the Agrawal, Dorsey, & Costolo regimes, has always had the technical capability to read user DMs, & a long history of poor internal access controls.
but, I've not noticed Twitter user DMs being part of any "Twitter Files" reporting.
did I miss a reveal? do you have a link documenting this claim?
but, I don't see the speculation in that article β from a former employee, choosing the most extreme implicature of one leaked Musk Signal message β as actually telling us whether user DMs are being accessed by favored journalists.
has Weiss reported seeing user DMs, or reported anything indicating user DMs were viewed?
if not, the former employee's extrapolation seems unwarranted. β¦+
β¦ it'd be easy enough for same insiders leaking other details to WaPo to testify, "DMs *were* accessed for Weiss" if they were.
that WaPo only engages in artfully-arranged speculation here implies they have no such testimony.
that said, given the architecture flaws & decade-plus laxity at Twitter Inc, it'd be reasonable to assume DMs probably have & will be accessed for flimsy purposes.
I just don't think it's fair to declare that as a certainty in particular cases where not sourced.
I may! but the texts here sem pretty clear about what has and hasn't been confirmed, so all of us who assign importance to accurate-foundations-for-beliefs likely have all they need from the toots.
@gojomo so, I was a little flip about this. I'm not sure I would change my single sentence out of my longer tootstorm to match your pov, but I appreciate that you took the time to think it through.
It's pretty remarkable how much Elon's Twitter takeover is a textbook fascist takeover: leftists immediately purged, censorship regime imposed behind the scenes, secret police rooting out enemies, right wing terrorism supported by the state, etc and β¦
I understand the frustration, but I am watching carefully to see what really pulls people here. So I still post there, but mostly ABOUT posting here. Most original thoughts start here and cross post there. Most of us have a natural aversion to people demanding we change. I don't think trying to shame 100 million tweeps will gets us as nearly as many converts as simply demonstrating the value proposition over time.
I agree with both of the paragraphs above, but I feel that makes me a qualified yes. There are some people who may not have a choice, but there are many more who absolutely do, and it's those people (and brands, especially those continuing to advertise) we should be calling out.
Itβs mostly Elon thatβs bad, no? And much worse to eg. buy his cars then.
Migrating ones network from one place to another doesnβt happen in a day and not all have time to figure it all out now.
I mean: Iβm on mastodon.social because I didnβt have time to research it more + never intended this to be my main account (will move to my IndieWeb profile eventually)
the monolithic twitter thing allows me to follow .. or at least read things that I *strong* disagree with.. I'm not really interested in putting content on twitter for a long time..
But it's useful to get visibility into networks and discourse that is very distant
I actually read it as meaning you were supposed to vote as weather or not you the voter were still posting on twitter and only realized my mistake after seeing a few replies.
I'm mostly going there to watch the collapse, but posting the odd reply doesn't seem wrong. I'm hoping the collapse is inevitable at this point, and doesn't need any misplaced advocacy. And if Mastodon cannot compete without people being nasty in support of it, then it should die as well.
@mpjgregoire this is just objectively untrue. Twitter has banned journalists; forbidden outlinks. Posting content there generates value for the network and encourages others to stay.
Plus Call In creates an opportunity for a conversation. I am doing what I can to provide tech support & remove other obstacles for people who want to make the transition but haven't found a way yet -- which means I still have one foot in the door over there myself. I personally find that helping rather than berating gets me much better results.
It's worth keeping in mind that for a majority of the world, particularly outside the US, there hasn't been much of a change in their experience on Twitter. If you aren't interested in the meta of Twitter, and most of the accounts you follow are in other countries, like Australia, there's not much to see. All the Australian journos and politicians are tweeting merrily along with barely a mention of the drama.
We joined #Mastodon to avoid this kind of bullshit mass bullying. You can't argue against QTs on one hand and say you'll create a pile-up on other people on the other hand. #FediMeta
@frandroid I have many friends in the disability community who stayed on twitter. One is in and out of the hospital and literally is fighting for her life right now. You really want me to bully her into joining Mastadon?
You have no right to "call them out" when they don't have the resources to migrate today. There are many good reasons a person may not be able to just abandon their community. Some people rely on Mutual Aid and sharing disability resources for COVID for example
I did read the full thread but playing Devil's Advocate, suggesting bullying could be an answer, really isn't as provocative as it is upsetting to the people reading your thread.
Perhaps you want people to be upset and then breathe a sigh of relief when they see you're "posing questions" but 80% of people don't read past that first toot.
And they think that a certain percent of Mastadon thinks Bullying is OK, according to your survey.
Tane Piper β
•bazkie bumpercar | unfluencer
•Evan Prodromou
•Evan Prodromou
•bazkie bumpercar | unfluencer
•Because on one hand, I understand people don't want to lose the communities they found and built there.
While on the other hand, any value added to Twitter is helping Musk gain power.
It sure is a dilemma. I'm just happy I didn't have much of a community going over there, so it was an easy choice for me to leave π
Evan Prodromou
•Which is a little strange, since social networks are all about paying attention to what friends, family and colleagues do.
bazkie bumpercar | unfluencer
•Evan Prodromou
•Chris Maler
•Grant πΊπ¦ArmUkraineπΊπ¦
•Catatonic Zombie
•mlinksva
•https://twitter.com/mlinksva/status/1607442201029804032
Evan Prodromou reshared this.
Vincent St. Pierre :mw:
•... I help some non-profits with their media relations. I basically am forced to have a Twitter account as there are journalists who haven't pivoted yet.
So I am hooped, as are a chunk of these organizations.
Ben Adida
•Cassian [main]
•aptlyundecided
•If the plan is to stay there with no end date in sight, then youβve βadorned the armbandβ IMO.
Evan Prodromou
•aptlyundecided
•Jason Bailey
•Antti Peltola
•Jono Ferguson
•Pelle Wessman
•Social media needs more love, not more hate.
Dave Swersky
•Stephen Kellat
•The Titanic didnβt go down in a sudden cataclysm. It took time for the disaster to fully unfold. Weβre watching problems continue to unfold on that system while the band continues to play. As long as they donβt start playing Horst-Wessel-Lied weβre okay for the moment.
Phillip Hallam-Baker
•That will allow you to advertise your E2E secure Fediverse messaging contact in your Mastodon profile. As with every other part of the Fediverse, anyone can set up a service, you can pick any service you choose. Unlike the current Fediverse, you own your account absolutely and you can change provider at any time without any cost whatsoever.
The next step will be to add RSS, ActivityPub and Mesh/Group feeds. So you will be able to read all your Fediverse content through one tool.
But the step after that is to add the ability to read Facebook feeds and Twitter feeds.
In my model there is the Fediverse of services that want to be open and the Feediverse of all feed like services including services that want to be walled gardens but are forced open through aggressive interop.
And the content curation system will select from both. So, if the curation services I choose spot that a lot of people like me are reacting to new content with 'give me more', that content is likely to... show more
That will allow you to advertise your E2E secure Fediverse messaging contact in your Mastodon profile. As with every other part of the Fediverse, anyone can set up a service, you can pick any service you choose. Unlike the current Fediverse, you own your account absolutely and you can change provider at any time without any cost whatsoever.
The next step will be to add RSS, ActivityPub and Mesh/Group feeds. So you will be able to read all your Fediverse content through one tool.
But the step after that is to add the ability to read Facebook feeds and Twitter feeds.
In my model there is the Fediverse of services that want to be open and the Feediverse of all feed like services including services that want to be walled gardens but are forced open through aggressive interop.
And the content curation system will select from both. So, if the curation services I choose spot that a lot of people like me are reacting to new content with 'give me more', that content is likely to appear in my feed. Conversely, if people are saying 'no more like this', that content is not likely to appear.
Not incidentally, this model means that not only do I not get MAGA hatter / QAnon drool in my feeds, it should also mean I don't get posts from public scolds of an Andrea Dworkin bent who lecture folk on not being leftie enough while collaborating with Republican censorship campaigns.
Travis Newton π¨βπ»
•Elliot
•Alessio :linux:
•But.
I see the point.
Malcolm Bastien
•What kind of outcome are we hoping to achieve, and would calling people out help with that?
Evan Prodromou
•Malcolm Bastien
•Though I guess my question was kind of rhetorical. I'm not sure there's any positive outcome that would be helped by calling people out.
Gerty Steinblatt
•I think Elon will kill the bird site dead all by himself, all we need to do is let him.
DaltonRoad
•I posted 3-10 times a day on Twitter over the years and I had 60k followers but I haven't posted in weeks at all but I haven't deleted or disabled my account.
I'm using Movetodon.com to try and find the folks I used to know over there so I don't want to fully kill the account.
Evan Prodromou
•Trillion Byter
•I support having 1-on-1 conversations with people still using Twitter. Understanding why they are using it, their concerns about other platforms, etc.
"Call out" is too presumptive. If their livelihood is based on a Twitter publicity, it isn't helpful to castigate them for not rolling the dice with their future.
I support helping them transition. If the conversation reveals the are fine remaining associated with hate speech, that's a 1-by-1 determination.
Evan Prodromou
•A fun, interesting, diverse, helpful network with a lot of infrastructure capacity is probably the best way to get people to switch.
Trillion Byter
•Building on your point, I'm envisioning Mastodon evangelism around the Twitter negatives like an intervention. Lot's of "I" statements and avoiding "you" statements. "I feel Twitter is supporting objectionable causes," etc. As compared to, "You're bad to use Twitter."
Ted Curran M. Ed.
•Evan Prodromou
•Partly it's the structure. I sometimes do a format with a statement then options to agree or disagree. Other times, I do a question with options to answer yes or no. I do this interchangeably, picking whichever is clearer.
In this case, I think a lot of people took it to mean that I was making the statement, because it's what I believe. That elicited a lot of emotion!
In the future, I'll tend towards questions.
Mark Andrew
•Evan Prodromou
•I think participating in the Twitter ecosystem is net evil for the world. It's a system that runs on content, and generating content for that system is being complicit with a very bad company.
But I don't think everyone's ready to extract themselves 100% from that ecosystem. Some people might need to keep up contacts there. Posting there and here, minimizing posts there, providing exclusive content here, are all good strategies.
Evan Prodromou
•I'm at a point, now, where I'm pretty disappointed to see friends here posting there. And I've told one or two as much, privately.
Evan Prodromou
•Journalists who cover Elon Musk had their accounts suspended *last week*.
Twitter announced a policy disallowing outlinks to other social networks at the same time.
They are giving full access to DMs and private accounts to conservative journalists.
It is a really fucked-up system. It's not just another social network.
Evan Prodromou
•That's 42% of people who think it's time to call out those who still post on Twitter.
Poll was here, ofc.
I think the future is going to reward those who contribute to the network and culture here. I don't think it holds much promise for those who cling to Twitter no matter what.
It's probably a good time to think about one's extraction plan, whether as a brand or an individual.
splicer
•Evan Prodromou
•https://mobile.twitter.com/mlinksva/status/1607442201029804032
Tane Piper (Dev)
•But honestly your whole self-righteous screed at Twitter *users* does not reflect well on you or ActivityPub. The fact you don't see it and double down is astonishing.
You sound like some mad pastor giving lift to Twitter as some satanic entity, and like The Fall - you damn everyone regardless of their views as sinful.
That's some position of privilege there.
Don Marti
•For each of the Internet personalities getting involved in the Twitter story, ask: am I comfortable sharing my site's visitor data with this person?
Felix Salmon
•Evan Prodromou
•La NΓ©gresse
•Red Faster
•Gordon Mohr κ§πκ§
•Twitter, including through the Agrawal, Dorsey, & Costolo regimes, has always had the technical capability to read user DMs, & a long history of poor internal access controls.
but, I've not noticed Twitter user DMs being part of any "Twitter Files" reporting.
did I miss a reveal? do you have a link documenting this claim?
Evan Prodromou
•Gordon Mohr κ§πκ§
•but, I don't see the speculation in that article β from a former employee, choosing the most extreme implicature of one leaked Musk Signal message β as actually telling us whether user DMs are being accessed by favored journalists.
has Weiss reported seeing user DMs, or reported anything indicating user DMs were viewed?
if not, the former employee's extrapolation seems unwarranted. β¦+
Gordon Mohr κ§πκ§
•it'd be easy enough for same insiders leaking other details to WaPo to testify, "DMs *were* accessed for Weiss" if they were.
that WaPo only engages in artfully-arranged speculation here implies they have no such testimony.
that said, given the architecture flaws & decade-plus laxity at Twitter Inc, it'd be reasonable to assume DMs probably have & will be accessed for flimsy purposes.
I just don't think it's fair to declare that as a certainty in particular cases where not sourced.
Evan Prodromou
•Gordon Mohr κ§πκ§
•Evan Prodromou
•Evan Prodromou
•Antti Peltola
•Michael Tae Sweeney (@mtsw@mastodon.social)
MastodonEvan Prodromou
•Shoq
•Ian Forrester | @cubicgarden
•Samuel Johnson
•Evan Prodromou
•Whether that is a *net* evil depends on how much good your posts generate.
It's up to the participant to decide if their good posts outweigh the evil network.
For most people, I'd say no, but I understand there are a lot of exceptions.
Pelle Wessman
•Migrating ones network from one place to another doesnβt happen in a day and not all have time to figure it all out now.
I mean: Iβm on mastodon.social because I didnβt have time to research it more + never intended this to be my main account (will move to my IndieWeb profile eventually)
kat
•But it's useful to get visibility into networks and discourse that is very distant
Daryl Chymko
•Evan Prodromou
•jph
•Evan Prodromou
•frandroid Γ Toronto
•Evan Prodromou
•Evan Prodromou
•https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll?wprov=sfla1
I don't know what to tell you. I do polls almost daily on a variety of topics under the hashtag #EvanPoll.
Good luck and enjoy Mastodon.
use of polling to spread misinformation
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Peter Oram
•Peter Oram
•Evan Prodromou
•Peter Oram
•Dave Cridland
•HenkPoley
•If someone has voted in a poll, but before the poll ends, they are blocked by the creator of the poll
.. they will still get a notification with the results when the poll ends.
Evan Prodromou
•Evan Prodromou
•Goutham Balaraman
•Evan Prodromou
•The audience is exactly the one I intended.
The poll is for this community, about what matters to this community, on social norms for this community.
Goutham Balaraman
•Evan Prodromou
•suldrew π²π³οΈβπ
•suldrew π²π³οΈβπ
•Adara Astin
•I'm afraid my view is obscured by the beam in my own eye. Or rather I should say the many beams.
Evan Prodromou
•Adara Astin
•π πΆπ§
•Why are you the one that draws the line in the sand?
How about improving the new home that you are charging for?
Mastodon/Fediverse is not perfect and you can help.
Myk
•frandroid Γ Toronto
•Evan Prodromou
•Evan Prodromou
•Melissa
•I have many friends in the disability community who stayed on twitter. One is in and out of the hospital and literally is fighting for her life right now. You really want me to bully her into joining Mastadon?
You have no right to "call them out" when they don't have the resources to migrate today. There are many good reasons a person may not be able to just abandon their community. Some people rely on Mutual Aid and sharing disability resources for COVID for example
Evan Prodromou
•Evan Prodromou
•Melissa
•I did read the full thread but playing Devil's Advocate, suggesting bullying could be an answer, really isn't as provocative as it is upsetting to the people reading your thread.
Perhaps you want people to be upset and then breathe a sigh of relief when they see you're "posing questions" but 80% of people don't read past that first toot.
And they think that a certain percent of Mastadon thinks Bullying is OK, according to your survey.
It's called playing Devil's Advocate
Evan Prodromou
•