Just about anything by anyone serious about climate, who realises the scale of what must be done, and the power of vested interests to keep making profits come what may, and damn the consequences.
Season 5 of the Scene On Radio podcast with Amy and John Biewen is a must listen.
Greta speaks a lot of truth. She's got a book out I think.
Peter Kalmus (NASA Climate Scientist) wrote a book "Being The Change. Live Well and Start a Climate Revolution" and it's a good place to start. You can buy a copy or read it free on his website here:
Being the Change: Live Well and Spark a Climate Revolution What can one being — you — do about global warming? Order now on Amazon Order now from the Publisher NEW: Read chapters online Being the Change has won the IPPY Outstanding Book of the Year A…
I voted "donor" because none of the lest qualifies for "decision maker on the government or institutional level". People who push for and make decisions are still people, right?
Nonexhaustive list of things I think each role does:
- Citizens vote, pressure their representatives, run for office, form parties - Consumers choose what to buy and how to live, engage in boycotts - Activists protest, occupy, spread the word - Donors give money to parties, NGOs, mutual aid
I feel like boycotts are no longer effective when done by those leaning left politically because the political right’s machine wakes up and drives support to it. Here in NA, not enough folks are willing to sacrifice anything to mitigate climate change.
Kraft just ditched their *entire* cheese division for plant based alternatives. You know every Big Food is looking to do same. Yeah right now soy milks and plant based cheese is still a bit more expensive than real dairy, but that's going to last maybe a few more years. Once plant based scales they make so much more money per L or / kg AND they get to greenwash by saying its better for the environment! "But it tastes-" they'll figure it out.
I guess I'm cynically saying that none of the options presented have much of an impact. Corporations have done a great job convincing consumers it's their problem. But companies and their board members really are the only ones that can make a significant difference
I’m a bit terrified that the consumer option is not the main choice. But I guess that I can explain it because we always find ways to let others take responsibility for our actions or lack of it.
Contentious question and I don't feel comfortable answering. The reality is all are important, and different people have different levels of ability to fight at each level.
NONE of those. We need structured support from government. Motivated response requires incentives. If not, people just act in short term interest. This is obvious, just look at how people vote
Clearly the answer is going to be different for different people.
Are you rich enough to make a difference with donations? If you are that rich, are you competent / streetwise enough to get your money to a place that matters? (The implosion of the "effective altruism" scene has convinced me almost no one is capable of effective donations.)
I voted activist because it seems like the biggest potential impact for any one person. The others tend to be a matter of numbers.
Of course. But I think the symbolic power of one Greta Thunberg has the potential to be much larger than that of one donor, voter, or purchaser.
If you aren't uniquely positioned for one of the other roles, e.g. you're not a Kennedy or other political dynasty that can definitely claim an influential role in govt...
If you're in an area that is gerrymandered, or where there are no green options to purchase, etc...
Direct action or civil disobedience can be done alone.
Your question is about "a person" and I interpret that as there being no guarantee anyone else will join you. The answer for what you could do with a large organization may be different.
My chosen role isn't on the list; I've picked worker, choosing my job based on that which would be likely to have one of he biggest impacts on climate change that I could.
Between those options, it’s a tossup between citizen and consumer. But by actual answer is something like “entrepreneur”, although broader (since you don’t necessarily have to be doing it for profit).
consumer; for as long as we derive our self worth from the possession of certain things or qualities, the root cause to climate change will still remain in place.
Yes, subsequently saw that, but still disagree. Protest (activist role in your schema) often has a goal pressuring representatives (citizen role in your schema). And how does one run for office or form parties (citizen role) without a suite of activities that include spreading the world (activist role)?
the most effective role in fighting climate change has been taken by billionaires and corporations, and their fight to avoid any climate change back to prior levels has been a wild success for half a century. Hence, donor and lobbyist are clearly the most effective roles within our systems of government.
I think that’s what you intended by the question. But as it was stated, the most effective actors have been donors by a long shot.
If asked what the 99.9% who don’t have that kind of personal power could do, I’d say the most effective action would be activism that convinces those with power that they’d be better off with <1.5C temperature rise, or that sidelines their power.
haven't seen the replies, didn't occur as a response to your question, but ... How do you feel about e.g. Ministry for the Future? I haven't read it but my understanding is that it revolves around the idea that inaction on climate change *is* violence (not just ideation) by politicians and capitalists against esp. the global south / BIPOC and that at some point agonism unavoidably turns to antagonism?
To paraphrase a successful environmental campaigner, conservationist, natural historian, and wildlife conservation charity CEO (with PhD in ecology) I know: if you're at the stage of chaining yourself to trees, it's already too late; you've already lost. We need to operate at the policy level for any chance of sustained success.
Interesting poll, as usual, but I wonder if maybe activist couldn't be bisected into different subtypes that might significantly change the numbers. 1) The passive advocate working mostly political levers, (e.g., Planned Parenthood) vs 2) the much more aggressive (and/or militant) political agitator and civil disobedient who deploys much more social, human and economic capital and stunts to disrupt the status quo to impact a political end. (e.g., Operation Rescue)
if by "a person" you mean any random individual, I think activist, though I think that effect is really de minimis. If the question is how could a single individual have the greatest impact, I think the answer is to pick a very wealthy person and for them to be a donor.
IMHO when it comes to the #ClimateEmergency - It is not hopeless & we, the people are not helpless!
It’s up to us – WE,THE PEOPLE to save planet Earth by becoming #ClimateConsumers who actively mitigate global warming by our daily choices of who we donate to, vote for, invest/divest/bank in; what we buy, eat, drive/pedal; to degasifying & electrifying everything, reduce, reuse, recycle & limit our overconsumption. https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2018/12/27/35-ways-reduce-carbon-footprint/
Greta Thunberg: “Politicians are not coming to the rescue of planet Earth”... show more
IMHO when it comes to the #ClimateEmergency - It is not hopeless & we, the people are not helpless!
It’s up to us – WE,THE PEOPLE to save planet Earth by becoming #ClimateConsumers who actively mitigate global warming by our daily choices of who we donate to, vote for, invest/divest/bank in; what we buy, eat, drive/pedal; to degasifying & electrifying everything, reduce, reuse, recycle & limit our overconsumption. https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2018/12/27/35-ways-reduce-carbon-footprint/
Interesting spread of results on this one. Not clear cut in people's minds, evidently.
I voted for Citizen.
Consumers can't do enough at the individual level to achieve what's needed. Ultimately, regulation of what they can consume is required to have the scale of impact required there (eg. I'd love to avoid buying anything wrapped in plastic but it's nigh on impossible; ergo regulations are needed to force a reduction in the amount of plastic packaging).
Interesting poll, and yet -as always- some thoughts
Activist 1st. Major societal changes appear to happen when a leading minority of 10% set a new standard for what’s normal
Consumer definitely last. Purchasing power is overrated. That is, unless you put green investments (including pension funds!) in the consumer category. Then it would be a good 2nd!
I won’t discount voting, but I’d say lawsuits are more influential under Citizen - those have raised awareness in NL
All of the above? Though since filthy rich live without regulation or consequences and contribute most, it feels like aa futile task until elections result in responsible leaders not beholden to money.
consumer. The current governing economy paradigm would not survive a severe withdraw of consumption as it is based on this massige pillar. Working -in the economy- less and for a better final product goes hand in hand. Politics alao belong to “the economy” and serve it.
Wow, this was super contentious. Great conversations.
A *lot* of doomism. That's a bummer; it's a toxic disinformation trend that keeps smart and capable people from doing what's needed to save the planet.
If that's where your head's at, find a way out. We need your help.
My response is citizen; I think it's our best option for effecting change. It's really hard, I know.
if you're talking about being an engaged and active citizen, at the moment that's indistinguishable from "activist."
To me, "citizen" also makes the assumption that our existing systems of government are up to the task, when - as victims of corporate and industry capture at a vast scale - they patently are not
what do you think about the relevance of social infrastructure (e.g. ultimately the implementation of an UBI) in solving the climate crisis? As some sort of an all hands on deck effort.
I voted donor because I kind of assumed that we're talking about a single person, and that a donor would be someone with lots of money. Money rules the world. Now I'm sad. Time for a beer.
not at all. I just imagined myself as a wealthy donor.
Also, the country I live in, Ecuador, is *struggling* so much lower in the Maslowian Hierarchy Of Needs for Countries™️; I keep hearing how "next week" we may not have a president anymore. Makes it hard to think about the climate, which of course is its own issue.
But I agree, a good enough idea (which I guess would come from a citizen) could turn things around. But then you see Greta being taken away by the police.
I'm not sure that's displacement per se, maybe more a sort of learned helplessness? But it's also recognizing it's a systemic issue and the systems are governed by, well, governments and corporations (that often own politicians that prevent governments from enacting constructive change). It's normal for people who have never really had to fight someone/something far more powerful than themselves to feel intimidated and helpless (because on some levels you really do need to be ready to die when you're fighting for your life). It, also, can be an excuse for inaction or just putting one's head in the sand.
But, yeah, we need to apply pressure and also try to figure out ways to support each other because as things get worse it's going to be all about mutual aid. And building those networks is how we also find ways to join together to apply pressure when and where we can.
. I heard a radio show describing the agricultural Industry in Denmark. The internal Danish market only accounts for a fraction of the total agricultural production. So, for that industry if you try to be a political consumer you have lost in advance. It needs to be regulated by the government, hence i --voted-- citizenship. It could be funny to model the interactions between the different categories. How activism influences citizens and so on.
* striking or seceding worker * labor organizer * saboteur * community builder
Also climate change is not something you fight, it's something you either mitigate or adapt to. "Fight" sounds like something that can have an end or that can be won and neither case applies to climate collapse.
Just Matthew 🙏
•Evan Prodromou
•Just Matthew 🙏
•The Drilled podcast by @amywestervelt is excellent.
Season 5 of the Scene On Radio podcast with Amy and John Biewen is a must listen.
Greta speaks a lot of truth. She's got a book out I think.
Peter Kalmus (NASA Climate Scientist) wrote a book "Being The Change. Live Well and Start a Climate Revolution" and it's a good place to start. You can buy a copy or read it free on his website here:
https://peterkalmus.net/books/
Books - Peter Kalmus
Peter KalmusJons Mostovojs
•Evan Prodromou
•Jons Mostovojs
•Sadly, direct action is often sponsored by agents who aren't participating in fixing #ClimateChange at all.
aaron
•Evan Prodromou
•- Citizens vote, pressure their representatives, run for office, form parties
- Consumers choose what to buy and how to live, engage in boycotts
- Activists protest, occupy, spread the word
- Donors give money to parties, NGOs, mutual aid
aburka 🫣
•- Regulator/legislator: craft rules and incentives
- CEO: can just... decide to leave it in the ground
Chris Hartjes
•Ben 🏳️🌈
•Steve E
•json web tokin'
•Third spruce tree on the left
•Kraft just ditched their *entire* cheese division for plant based alternatives. You know every Big Food is looking to do same. Yeah right now soy milks and plant based cheese is still a bit more expensive than real dairy, but that's going to last maybe a few more years. Once plant based scales they make so much more money per L or / kg AND they get to greenwash by saying its better for the environment! "But it tastes-" they'll figure it out.
Darwin Woodka
•Chris (W1YTQ)
•Evan Prodromou
•Chris (W1YTQ)
•Evan Prodromou
•Real_JamesCain
•Splodge
•aroom
•Miakoda
•Evan Prodromou
•Miakoda
•capitalists understand.
1 - Money. Good luck making the right thing to do more profitable than wanton destruction.
and
2 - Violence.
I don't like it, you probably don't like it, but we're running out of time. They're making it necessary.
Mark Darbyshire
•Evan Prodromou
•Mark Darbyshire
•krisvdm
•We need structured support from government. Motivated response requires incentives. If not, people just act in short term interest.
This is obvious, just look at how people vote
Evan Prodromou
•clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
•6. Business leader
Those may be too obvious and inaccessible so I agree they don't belong in the poll. The role of the other four is to push these two, basically.
Evan Prodromou
•James M.
•Nelson Chu Pavlosky
•Are you rich enough to make a difference with donations? If you are that rich, are you competent / streetwise enough to get your money to a place that matters? (The implosion of the "effective altruism" scene has convinced me almost no one is capable of effective donations.)
I voted activist because it seems like the biggest potential impact for any one person. The others tend to be a matter of numbers.
Evan Prodromou
•Nelson Chu Pavlosky
•If you aren't uniquely positioned for one of the other roles, e.g. you're not a Kennedy or other political dynasty that can definitely claim an influential role in govt...
If you're in an area that is gerrymandered, or where there are no green options to purchase, etc...
Direct action or civil disobedience can be done alone.
Nelson Chu Pavlosky
•Evan Prodromou
•DaveB
•nandi
•Evan Prodromou
•nandi
•Brian Campbell
•Evan Prodromou
•Aljoscha Rittner (beandev)
•Evan Prodromou
•kechpaja
•Corstian Boerman
•Openhuman
•JustTheFacts
•Evan Prodromou
•Ben Curthoys
•Almad
•Evan Prodromou
•Almad
•IMHO that’s the core tenant of democracy, and a way for the government to be “us”, not “them”.
Håkon Alstadheim
•Bob Kopp
•Evan Prodromou
•Bob Kopp
•Zach Fine
•Evan Prodromou
•Zach Fine
•If asked what the 99.9% who don’t have that kind of personal power could do, I’d say the most effective action would be activism that convinces those with power that they’d be better off with <1.5C temperature rise, or that sidelines their power.
🎃 hell bundy 🎃
•Evan Prodromou
•How do you and I get government to intervene?
🎃 hell bundy 🎃
•Evan Prodromou
•🎃 hell bundy 🎃
•Evan Prodromou
•Evan Prodromou
•Even if you're "just joking" or "only saying", it is not welcome in my head or on my timeline.
I had to block some nice people I don't know well, which was regrettable.
blaine
•Evan Prodromou
•I can't have my personal feed and site, with my real name and real associations, be a place for graphic speculation on terrorist violence.
It would interfere with my work and my colleagues' work, both on the fediverse and for climate change tech.
Just Matthew 🙏
•I'm guessing you realised that as I'm not blocked, yet want to be clear:
Yes, I think we need revolutionary changes. No I do not see violence as acceptable or useful.
Only peace can overcome violence.
Evan Prodromou
•Just Matthew 🙏
•I'm sorry people were disrespectful.
guntbert
•Evan Prodromou
•ideation - Wiktionary
en.m.wiktionary.orgguntbert
•Jeff Moe
•The public's opinion has been shown to be *indistinguishable from noise* when measuring it's effect on political decisions.
Evan Prodromou
•Jeff Moe
•https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens | Perspectives on Politics | Cambridge Core
Cambridge CoreJeff Moe
•Charles Roper
•To paraphrase a successful environmental campaigner, conservationist, natural historian, and wildlife conservation charity CEO (with PhD in ecology) I know: if you're at the stage of chaining yourself to trees, it's already too late; you've already lost. We need to operate at the policy level for any chance of sustained success.
Charles Roper
•Evan Prodromou
•Paul Kedrosky
•Shoq
•mjec
•Evan Prodromou
•Bill Orcutt
•It’s up to us – WE,THE PEOPLE to save planet Earth by becoming #ClimateConsumers who actively mitigate global warming by our daily choices of who we donate to, vote for, invest/divest/bank in; what we buy, eat, drive/pedal; to degasifying & electrifying everything, reduce, reuse, recycle & limit our overconsumption. https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2018/12/27/35-ways-reduce-carbon-footprint/
Greta Thunberg: “Politicians are not coming to the rescue of planet Earth”... show more
It’s up to us – WE,THE PEOPLE to save planet Earth by becoming #ClimateConsumers who actively mitigate global warming by our daily choices of who we donate to, vote for, invest/divest/bank in; what we buy, eat, drive/pedal; to degasifying & electrifying everything, reduce, reuse, recycle & limit our overconsumption. https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2018/12/27/35-ways-reduce-carbon-footprint/
Greta Thunberg: “Politicians are not coming to the rescue of planet Earth” https://www.newstatesman.com/environment/2022/10/greta-thunberg-guest-edit-politicians-rescue-planet & “Saving the world is voluntary…we need billions of #climate activists” https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/08/greta-thunberg-climate-delusion-greenwashed-out-of-our-senses
William Stanley Jevons : “Value is created by the consumer, not the producer… the consumer is the ‘ultimate regulator of demand’”
Greta Thunberg on the climate delusion: ‘We’ve been greenwashed out of our senses. It’s time to stand our ground’
Greta Thunberg (The Guardian)Jonathan T
•I voted for Citizen.
Consumers can't do enough at the individual level to achieve what's needed. Ultimately, regulation of what they can consume is required to have the scale of impact required there (eg. I'd love to avoid buying anything wrapped in plastic but it's nigh on impossible; ergo regulations are needed to force a reduction in the amount of plastic packaging).
Vincent 🌻🇪🇺
•Activist 1st. Major societal changes appear to happen when a leading minority of 10% set a new standard for what’s normal
Consumer definitely last. Purchasing power is overrated. That is, unless you put green investments (including pension funds!) in the consumer category. Then it would be a good 2nd!
I won’t discount voting, but I’d say lawsuits are more influential under Citizen - those have raised awareness in NL
Carolyn
•Evan Prodromou
•Carolyn
•josep8
•Evan Prodromou
•A *lot* of doomism. That's a bummer; it's a toxic disinformation trend that keeps smart and capable people from doing what's needed to save the planet.
If that's where your head's at, find a way out. We need your help.
My response is citizen; I think it's our best option for effecting change. It's really hard, I know.
Josh
•To me, "citizen" also makes the assumption that our existing systems of government are up to the task, when - as victims of corporate and industry capture at a vast scale - they patently are not
Corstian Boerman
•gam3
•Camilo Bravo :drumset:
•Evan Prodromou
•Camilo Bravo :drumset:
•Also, the country I live in, Ecuador, is *struggling* so much lower in the Maslowian Hierarchy Of Needs for Countries™️; I keep hearing how "next week" we may not have a president anymore. Makes it hard to think about the climate, which of course is its own issue.
But I agree, a good enough idea (which I guess would come from a citizen) could turn things around. But then you see Greta being taken away by the police.
Another beer...
Strght
•Fifi Lamoura
•But, yeah, we need to apply pressure and also try to figure out ways to support each other because as things get worse it's going to be all about mutual aid. And building those networks is how we also find ways to join together to apply pressure when and where we can.
Rune
•mango 🚴🏽
•If consumers don't buy, no demand, there is no production, no energy use, no pollution, no global heating etc.
And, not to forget, citizens, activists, donors are all consumers, too.
It is #petroconsumerism that drove the wheel in the ditch.
tdybvik
•chobeat
•* striking or seceding worker
* labor organizer
* saboteur
* community builder
Also climate change is not something you fight, it's something you either mitigate or adapt to. "Fight" sounds like something that can have an end or that can be won and neither case applies to climate collapse.
Alice
•Evan Prodromou
•