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On Post, @kathygriffin challenges Noam about Andreessen and he starts backing away (see screenshot). To which Kathy responded:
"Please don’t try to gaslight anyone on Marc Andreessen, of all people.
"Please understand that real world people had no clue about who Elon Musk and Peter Theil were, much less the destruction we didn’t catch in time. You didn’t HAVE to go to AH. You could’ve self funded."
Kathy - as we are all trying to reboot things here, let's try to assume the best and not the worst of people. I am talking about me, I am not here to represent Marc Andreessen. I think you can look at my track record, and how Waze was built and managed, and get an idea of who I am. Regardless - give me a chance to screw up (which I will, often) and criticize the real screwups.

I took an investment from Andreessen Horowitz (A16Z) the VC firm, not Marc personally. They have backed a sizable amount of the internet services we all use.

I am not here to represent the VC world, or the banks, or the corporations, or oil companies - I am here representing Post, the team, and myself.

A16Z owns a minority share of the company, as does Scott Galloway and employees of the company. I am the largest shareholder and control the company

Marc is not a board member or involved with the company, a different partner is

I explained most of this in my post this morning.

As a matter of corporate governance - the investors or the board do not have access to algorithms, data, privacy or any other personal information, and it is not something I would ever allow nor would any other CEO.

Let's focus on the product and the community. Take your beef with Marc to Marc and A16Z and lets try and build something great together
I don’t understand why anyone would want to be on another platform with an algorithm. It sucks.
I disagree. An algorithm is not intrinsically bad. As long as we understand that it represents the interests of whoever paid to have it constructed. I think an algorithm with human values that simply wanted to enrich experience is perfectly possible.

I haven't seen one, probably because nobody has ever had a financial incentive to construct it.

Mastodon would be a good place to try to make one.
We don't have to optimize for engagement.

We could optimize for better connections with the people you care about.

For a richer and more fulfilling life.
in this space, let's be clear, too, that "chronological" is an algorithm. Any sort of automatic moderation (blocking, muting, etc) is an algorithm.

The key thing is that *anyone* here can be in control of the algorithm that affects them. We aren't ever again going to be bound by the whims and anxieties of a bunch of guys looking to make a dollar.

(We do all have to hold ourselves accountable, which is liberating and terrifying, of course!)
Yes! We need to choose what we prioritize.

I’ve been dreaming of an app that is built on “interestingness” and “connection”. I assume 90% of us are using Metatext or Mastodon app.
things like, "You haven't talked to your friend Kevin in a month. Here are some of his pictures from his trip to Boston." Or "Did you know that you and your friend debs both share an interest in baking? Here's some of her latest posts about baking."
yes along those lines! But need to be careful on frequency etc

And also “rewarding” connective behaviors - by using that as a metric vs “followers”
it was New York, not Boston… but yes
Brooklyn Bridge from below Empanadas in Brooklyn
ridiculously thin blue skyscrapers south of Central Park that look like CGI
My son Christopher moved to Brooklyn this year and lined up all the good places to eat for me… This was Cafe Calaca https://foursquare.com/v/cafe-calaca/603520cb4dbe600724233228
when ppl say algorithm they mean a nonchronological, algorithmically curated timeline based on engagement or other criteria. I think the timeline should stay chronological because any other criterion can lead to amplifying controversy, outrage or can be influenced by various biases. I don't understand why some people are pushing for this.
This is *our* network.

Just because these tools are used for engagement and ad clicks on other social networks doesn't mean we need to use them for that purpose here.

Our social tools should serve our own social needs.

I *don't* need controversy or outrage in my life.

I *do* need connection, deep relationships, and community interaction.

If the tools serve *our* purposes, and are under *our* control, why wouldn't we use them?
who is we in this context? Is there going to be a democratic one person one vote decision? Or are the loudest voices entitled to decide for everyone else? And how are these algorithms going to be implemented? A chronological timeline has always worked, on FB, Twitter and here. You suggest to change that and create a curated experience which leads to plenty of unintended consequences, such as ppl being left out, outrage amplified and accounts gaming the algorithms.
if the majority here want to overhaul the timeline and start a huge experiment in algorithms, I'm out of here. I have no interest in replacing what has always worked well thanks to its simplicity with a variety of algorithms and endless discussions about how to implement them.
I was thinking third-party tools, like an alternative mobile or web client. If it was useful enough, an alternative way of sorting input for the main web client.
everything sounds good except: do you have specific examples? And have you thought about unintended consequences? I don't care about any suggestion where unintended consequences (which are plausible, such as the emergence of silos, tribalism, outrage gaming of the nonchronological algorithms etc) are ignored, dismissed and glossed over. And for what? What is the actual benefit of nonchronological algorithms specifically on which platform?
If I build my own fedi app with a non-chronological timeline, or indeed no timeline at all, in what way does that affect you? In fact, how do you know I'm not doing that right now?
maybe you do and maybe you don't, a persuasive argument. Do you have your own fediverse app? And how are the algorithms changing your timeline? Show us the outcome.

Anyway, my argument is about changes that affect everyone, such as instances or popular apps like Mastodon doing it. Few people will build their own apps, so that is not relevant for most users.
Ah, so what we're talking about here is software governance. How do you think users could or should be involved in the governance (i.e. making the roadmap and feature decisions) of an app like Mastodon?
certainly not by having a few loud voices impose a model that has always failed. If we must renegotiate the rules every minute, there's no governance, and people will leave. Having a chronological timeline and no Quote blogs seems like a sound basis.

Chronological timelines have worked on FB, Twitter and here. If that changes, people can draw their own conclusions. I will move somewhere else.
Federation means a distributed locus of control.

We have a many different server software implementations;

Many different clients for those servers;

Many instances with different patches and configuration options;

Many, many user accounts with different user settings.
It's unlikely that the default Mastodon home timeline will change from reverse chronological order. Many people consider it a crucial feature.

If it were to happen, you would be able to change user settings, client software, instance, or server software without losing access to your social graph or data.

Noone can force any kind of algorithm on you in this network. Not even the Mastodon dev team!

Can we put please this topic to rest?
Telling people to move from one server to another is exactly one of the problems that should be solved rather than focusing on changing the chronological timeline, which is something that works.

And changing settings doesn't work. You can't have a chronological timeline once you follow ppl that have a nonchronological timeline. Just like Twitter didn't really have a chronological timeline anymore.
And by "in control" it should be a setting in every List, Local, Federated and Direct List that with one click you can go edit and tweak to your hearts content.

And the default should be just "chronological" in my book.
Algorithms will always reflect the biases of its creators, even if they have the best of intentions. And tech has always had big gaps in race & gender so #algorithms inevitably reflect the biases of cis white men & their privileges.

Rather than shooting for a ‘better’ algorithm, we - and society as a whole - are better off connecting with people in greater depth.
Let’s do that for real instead of just giving lip service like #Meta / #Facebook https://about.meta.com/company-info/