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Maybe naïve questions: How does #UBI sits in the #MMT framework? Public spending would far exceed production in the first months/years of the policy being enacted, since it can’t replace all social benefits?

#UniversalBasicIncome #ModernMonetaryTheory

#ubi #MMT #universalbasicincome #ModernMonetaryTheory
>sfb< SigmundFreud'sBartender
>sfb< SigmundFreud'sBartender  
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UBI is in my opinion a way to keep capitalism attempting to buy social peace.
Hypolite Petovan
Hypolite Petovan  
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@>sfb< SigmundFreud'sBartender You aren't wrong, but it would still buy social peace instead of beating it into people as it does currently.
@>sfb< SigmundFreud'sBartender
Pinky Floyd
Pinky Floyd  
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two things you may want to consider in this thought exercise:

1) it wouldn't happen overnight, funds would be gradually shifted over a period of years;
2) in 2022 the federal govt (usa) spent $1.2 Trillion with a T on social services ($9000 per household).

Hypolite Petovan
Hypolite Petovan  
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@Pinky Floyd Thank you for your reply, you're probably right, I assume a rollout could start with the people who already are receiving social security benefits.

As for the social services spendings, I'd be curious to see how it's spread, do you have a web page handy?

@Pinky Floyd
Pinky Floyd
Pinky Floyd  
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sure, attached is a cool image of all the programs, it's from 2013 but still highly representative and a great visualization.

here's where the current $1.19 trillion figure comes from: https://budget.house.gov/press-release/7582/

Biden’s Budget: A Future That’s Built on Government Dependence | The U.S. House Committee on the Budget - House Budget Committee

The Official U.S. Congressional website of The Republican Budget Committee
budget.house.gov
Hypolite Petovan
Hypolite Petovan  
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@Radio Jammor Let's go back to what I understand of MMT:
- Public spending is necessary for any government issuing their own currency (like the US) to put currency in circulation.
- Currency is needed to exchange goods and services produced inside the territory where this currency is used.
- Taxes at a national level are used to both increase the demand for the currency and control its total amount.
- National debt is just another way of saying "the amount of currency in circulation", which doesn't make any sense reducing unless the economy is also contracting.
- The level of public spending should then not be correlated with national income but with the gross domestic product.

Secondly, my idea of a UBI program would only replace very specific social security programs (unemployment and food stamps are two prominent examples) so the increased spending with UBI wouldn't be compensated by a significant cut of its existing spending.

In this sense, UBI doesn't particularly ruffle any MMT feathers, except maybe the last one?

@Radio Jammor
Hypolite Petovan
Hypolite Petovan  
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@A Sweet Gentleman Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm trying to remove it!
@A Sweet Gentleman
Dallas Lewis
Dallas Lewis  
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@radiojammor

Most MMT people would support a GBI. None support UBI because of the negative macroeconomic consequences you mentioned.

@Radio Jammor
Hypolite Petovan
Hypolite Petovan  
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@Dallas Lewis @Radio Jammor Ah, interesting, thanks, I hear less about GBI than I hear about UBI but it sounds indeed better on paper. I have different reservations about GBI, namely that if it doesn't apply to visa holders (and I don't see it likely), then there would be an increased demand for foreign workers and pressure to make applying for nationality even harder.
@Radio Jammor @Dallas Lewis
Hypolite Petovan
Hypolite Petovan  
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@Dallas Lewis @A Sweet Gentleman Thank you for the reassurance, my reply was a reference to a dril meme I don't blame you for not knowing: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dril#2015
@A Sweet Gentleman @Dallas Lewis
Dallas Lewis
Dallas Lewis  
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@radiojammor

None of it will happen until we get a progressive government and our only chance of that is a Labor minority with a progressive cross bench.

@Radio Jammor
Hypolite Petovan
Hypolite Petovan  
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@Dallas Lewis Same unlikelihood at the US federal level, unfortunately.
@Dallas Lewis
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